If I lose a bid I usually just move on to the next. I don't think I've ever discounted a job and done it for less than I would normally do it for based upon who my competition was in the area. The most I ever do is offer very short terms when I get the old "I'm not making any money right now, can you knock off a hundred so I can give you the job?".

So you've NEVER looked into what your competition charges? You just pick a number, be it reasonable for your market or not, and pray it works?

Or did you pick a number, and it didnt work, and you lost job after job, gradually reducing your price, until your pricing started working?

I'd like to know how you found out what the market pricing in your area was WITHOUT asking your competition what their pricing was.

Thats a poor business strategy to price your product at random or based on a general guesstimate of what a fair price might be.

And I never complained about anyone "wasting my time". It happens. Quote a job, lose the job, I'm pretty sure that happens MORE often than quote the job and get it. That being said, I've got no business being IN business if I'm doing it blind.

I like that you feel convinced that there's only one way to do business in this industry, it makes it easier for me...

I always approach my customers as an artist and not a typical "sign guy", there are lots of sign guys in my area but no artists. This attitude nullifies the customers rational for shopping because how can you compare a dollars and cents project with one of true intrinsic value? I don't get every job I come across but I do get the ones I want to do and more than often get complete artistic say so on the final design which you have to admit is what makes this niche fun.
Why would I care what my "competition" charges if they're not competing for the same market?
Example:
Take $29 Levi's 501's from Kohl's vs. $84 Levi's 501's from Nordstrom's, Both consumers wanted 501's, both felt they were a bargain at the sale price they paid. Is this the same product? Yes. Is it the same customer? No. I don't want the customer who only sees value in shopping around looking for the best price as a way to spend their day. I want the one that is waiting for me to say "look no further, I know exactly what you want" and then moves on to his or her next business matter.
Lumping yourself into a group is great for keeping you busy all day and night measuring and quoting but making less effort for higher profitability is often the results of setting yourself apart. The pet rock from the 70's was just a rock, it took somebody to make the consumer look at it differently in order to turn it into a million dollar idea. And don't discredit Prayer, I do it all the time, regardless of how much work I get or do not get.

Works for any market with multiple demographics, try it!

Quote from: locknload1 on December 06, 2011, 04:20:39 PM

Quote from: lasersharkdesign on December 06, 2011, 02:49:30 PM

So you've NEVER looked into what your competition charges? You just pick a number, be it reasonable for your market or not, and pray it works?

Or did you pick a number, and it didnt work, and you lost job after job, gradually reducing your price, until your pricing started working?

I'd like to know how you found out what the market pricing in your area was WITHOUT asking your competition what their pricing was.

Thats a poor business strategy to price your product at random or based on a general guesstimate of what a fair price might be.

And I never complained about anyone "wasting my time". It happens. Quote a job, lose the job, I'm pretty sure that happens MORE often than quote the job and get it. That being said, I've got no business being IN business if I'm doing it blind.

I like that you feel convinced that there's only one way to do business in this industry, it makes it easier for me...

I always approach my customers as an artist and not a typical "sign guy", there are lots of sign guys in my area but no artists. This attitude nullifies the customers rational for shopping because how can you compare a dollars and cents project with one of true intrinsic value? I don't get every job I come across but I do get the ones I want to do and more than often get complete artistic say so on the final design which you have to admit is what makes this niche fun.
Why would I care what my "competition" charges if they're not competing for the same market?
Example:
Take $29 Levi's 501's from Kohl's vs. $84 Levi's 501's from Nordstrom's, Both consumers wanted 501's, both felt they were a bargain at the sale price they paid. Is this the same product? Yes. Is it the same customer? No. I don't want the customer who only sees value in shopping around looking for the best price as a way to spend their day. I want the one that is waiting for me to say "look no further, I know exactly what you want" and then moves on to his or her next business matter.
Lumping yourself into a group is great for keeping you busy all day and night measuring and quoting but making less effort for higher profitability is often the results of setting yourself apart. The pet rock from the 70's was just a rock, it took somebody to make the consumer look at it differently in order to turn it into a million dollar idea. And don't discredit Prayer, I do it all the time, regardless of how much work I get or do not get.

Works for any market with multiple demographics, try it!

while i see and can relate exactly to what you are saying, i personally feel that knowing what your competition is charging is a huge tool. the flip side to what you said is, what if i can have fun, live very comfortably, have artistic say so over most projects, and get most of the jobs i quote at a labor rate of $50 per hour due to my low overhead, but the competition in my area is at $90 an hour on labor. why would i want to continue to leave that kind of money on the table on every job i do? why not maximize your income potential? not saying you have to gouge customers, but knowledge of the pricing in your area is always a useful tool.

I don't know what to tell you, I've not taken the time out to "shop", I know I'm not inexpensive, and I get enough work to give some of it away. Most of the time my customers even tell me what the other guys bid amount, if there is another guy that is.
Another thing is I don't price by the foot, yard or hour I charge based on the job and how much I want it.

I also forgot to add that I ask the customer before I even go see the job "what is your allocated budget", it helps to weed out the trips that could be a waste of time. I'm sure I don't tell you how many people have no clue that a decent channel letter signs start at $3,500 not including permits.